Can you count in Greek?

Γεια σου Ντάρκο!

First things first! A pronoun is a word that we use in place of a name, a noun or an adjective.

Specifically about personal and demonstrative pronouns you need to know the following:

1) Personal (προσωπικές αντωνυμίες)

These denote:

- the speaker (first person, I)

- the person we are talking to (second person, you)

- the person we are talking about (third person, he/she/it)

There are two subgroups here:

a) Emphatic or strong forms such as εγώ, εσύ, αυτός, -η, -ο.

These can be used on their own in speech or when we want to emphasize something or distinguish it from something else.

b) Clitic or weak forms

These single syllable personal pronouns (like μου, σου, με, σε etc.) are used more often, but never on their own. They always depend on other words and we use them when we don't want to emphasize something or distinguish it from something else.

2) Demonstrative pronouns (δεικτικές αντωνυμίες)

We use these when we show, demonstrate or point at someone or something. There are five types here:

a) αυτός, αυτή, αυτό - "this/that (one)"

We use those to show someone or something that is near us or that has just been mentioned.

b) (ε)τούτος, (ε)τούτη, (ε)τούτο - "this one"

We use these to show someone or something that is very near.

c) εκείνος, εκείνη, εκείνο - "that"

We use these to show someone or something that is far from us.

d) τέτοιος τέτοια τέτοιο - "such", "this/that type"

We use those to show the quality of a noun.

e) τόσος, τόση, τόσο - "this/that/so much/many"

We use those to show the quantity of a noun.

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So the sentence in the lesson notes (Αυτή η ουζερί στην Πλάκα έχει λαχταριστούς μεζέδες και εξαιρετικό ούζο.) uses αυτή as a demonstrative pronoun, because it doesn't refer to a person we are talking about, but rather it shows something that is near us or that has just been mentioned, i.e the ουζερί.

Let me know if you have any more questions about this!

Φιλικά,

Stefania

Team GreekPod101.com

Γεια σου!

Where would one use the pronom. pronouns effectively? I've noticed in this lesson's PDF "Αυτή η" and so on... Aren't these pronouns used as demonstratives as well, such as: this, that, etc., but according to gender?

Ευχαριστώ πολύ!

Hi SM,

Τρία is what we call an "absolute numeral". We use it when you count in general, 1, 2, 3, 4, ....

However when it is used as an adjective, for example three children, three men, three women, then it needs to agree with the gender of the word that follows. So we have:

Τρεις άντρες

Τρεις γυναίκες

Τρία παιδιά

Τρεις is for masculine and feminine and τρία for neuter.

However be careful. You might not always have a noun right after it, so you have to pay attention to the context. For example:

Πόσα παιδιά έχεις; - How many kids do you have? (Neuter)

Τρία.

Πόσους βώλους έχεις; - How many marbles do you have? (Masculine)

Τρεις.

Πόσες γυναίκες βλέπεις; - How many women do you see? (Feminine)

Τρεις.

Just as an extra information for you, number 2 and numbers 5-100 have only one form for all genders and declination cases. It's only numbers 1, 3 and 4 that differ between genders:

Absolute numerals:

1 ένα

3 τρία

4 τέσσερα

However, when declined, here are the forms:

http://screencast.com/t/lCbaPervQWk

I hope it's clear!

Stefania,

Team GreekPod101.com

I have a question about the word(s) for the number 3.

When should I use τρείς instead of τρία?

Thanks!

Hi Andrea!

You are very welcome!

I understand how Greek can be a very challenging language to learn, so I like to help as much as I can:mrgreen:

I hope you will find learning with us fun and effective! Remember, questions are always welcome here:wink:

Good luck!

Stefania,

Team GreekPod101.com

Wow! I'm so impressed that you would take the time to write such a detailed (and erudite) explanation. I found it very interesting.

Thanks!

Andrea

Hi Andrea!

Well that is an interesting question!

By the way, there are also more numbers that have two ways of writing and pronouncing them:

7 = επτά/εφτά

8 = οκτώ/οχτώ

9 = εννέα/εννιά

I will try to explain below why both are correct :smile:

In the case of εφτά/επτά and οχτώ/οκτώ there is sort of a phonological explanation.

You can divide Greek consonants into two types: continuous and momentary.

A continuous sound is one you could keep producing until you ran out of breath, if you wanted to: φφφφφφ, χχχχχχ, θθθθθθ, σσσσσσσ, etc.

With a momentary sound, once you say it it's over; you can't really extend it: π, κ, τ.

Now, in ancient Greek (αρχαία ελληνικά) there could be two of the same sort of consonants together, i.e., two momentary ones as in επτά or οκτώ, or two continuous ones as in φθηνός or χθες. In modern Greek (or demotic Greek - δημοτική) one of the two similar sounds could change into the opposite sometimes: εφτά, οχτώ, φτηνός, χτες.

The older phonological rule is still preserved in many regional Greek dialects, not to mention the καθαρεύουσα movement, that ended some decades ago (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katharevousa), which sought to keep such old rules within the language.

So really what you end up with, I guess, is a sort of mish-mash of the two forms in Modern Greek. That is why both of these version of words are correct and being used!

With εννέα and εννιά, clearly the exact same phonological principle is not at work, but I'm pretty sure that it's the same sort of coexistence of an ancient and a demotic form.

I personally switch between the two forms depending on the style and speed that I speak:

-If I speak fast for example εφτά might pop out of my mouth faster and easier, because pronouncing quickly 2 momentary consonants (πτ) might be harder.

-But if I am on the phone for example and someone asks me for my mobile number, I would probably choose to say επτά because I would be speaking slowly and clearly, so that the person can hear me better. It would definitely sound better to his ear than hearing me saying a long εφφφφφτάααα. That φφφφφφφ would sound like a hissing!

Try to practice pronouncing those words I mentioned before, fast and slow and let me know how it works for you!

Sorry for the long explanation!:roll:

Happy studying :grin:

Stefania,

Team GreekPod101.com

Now I have another question: Why is "seven" sometimes spelled επτα and sometimes spelled (and pronounced) εφτα ? I'm confused....

Thanks,

Andrea

Hello Andrea,

Thank you very much for taking the time to give us your feedback. We are glad to have you here!

We apologize for the mistake. The article "a" is an indefinite article, as you said.

We hope you continue enjoying our website, and let us know if you have any questions or comments!

Kind regards,

Paloma

Team GreekPod101

I'm planning to visit Greece in May, and I'm so glad I found your site. I love your approach to teaching Greek, for the most part. I did notice one error in this lesson (I'm a retired English teacher) that you might want to correct: the word "a" is the indefinite article, not the "infinite" article, as you stated in your audio lesson.